Jennifer Levin
Today’s conversation centers on a form of grief that is often overlooked, minimized, or misunderstood—the loss of a close friend. While friendships can hold some of the deepest bonds in our lives, the grief that follows their loss is not always recognized or supported in the ways it deserves. In this episode, I’m joined by Hannah Rumsey, who shares the story of her friend Lauren and the impact her death had on her life. Together, we explore what it means to live with disenfranchised grief—grief that is not fully acknowledged by society—and how that lack of recognition can deepen the isolation many people feel after loss. We also talk about how grief evolves over time, how identity can shift after loss, and why creating spaces where people feel seen, heard, and understood is so essential.
Jennifer Levin
Hi, Hannah, welcome. I am so pleased that you are here with us today, and as I start off with all my guests, I just would love to have you introduce yourself.
Hannah Rumsey
Thank you so much for having me. My name is Hannah Rumsey, and after one of my closest friends died in 2015 it has been a mission of mine to create space for people who are grieving friends, and to really create a space where they can feel seen, heard and understood.
Jennifer Levin
That is such an important mission. I'll ask you more questions about what you've done in a bit, but what are some of the things that you like to do dogs? I always like to get to know people.
Hannah Rumsey
Oh, yeah, I love dogs. My family has a dog. I don't have one of my own. I wish I did. I wish I had the time. But yeah, as far as things that I love to do, I I love, like, live theater, live comedy. So I live in Chicago, and I love going to shows. I was in the improv scene, if people know, like, Chicago is a big improv scene, so I did that for a while, and I really love being silly and goofy, and so I recently started taking clowning classes. And whenever I tell people that they're they immediately think, like, birthday clown. And I'm like, no, no, no, it's different. I promise.
Jennifer Levin
That is a very interesting fact, and I love the part about you like being silly and goofy, because we're actually talking about a pretty serious topic today, and having that balance is important. So tell us about your friend, Lauren. Who was she to you, and what made your your friendship so special, so meaningful.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, my friend Lauren, we met at the Interlochen Summer Arts Camp in 2009 I was 17, and she was 14, going on 15, actually, and it's, I could count on one hand the number of times in my life that I've clicked with someone so immediately, and she was one of those times, like, I think within an hour, we were like, just two peas in a pod, and she was so funny and so goofy and so silly, And that part of me just I was like, yes, like, because it's so rare that I really get to unleash that desire to just be so, so goofy. And here's an example, one of the first days we knew each other. I mean, it had been like less than 48 hours. We were walking through the interlochen grounds, and she just started galloping like a horse, just like ran off and started galloping and neighing, and like she was holding invisible reins and and I just, you know, when you feel so happy and so joyful, it feels like you have like pop rocks in your throat, like, just like the fireworks in your chest, you know? And I, and I galloped with her, and that I use that example, because, like, that's her energy. And it was like that all the time. And she was so good at flipping the mood and and making you laugh if you were upset.
Jennifer Levin
Sounds like the two of you really had a soul connection?
Hannah Rumsey
I feel that. I feel that in my, yeah, I do.
Jennifer Levin
Tell us a little bit about what happened to Lauren.
Hannah Rumsey
So in 2015 it was her birthday, July 19, and I went to her Facebook page to just post Happy birthday, and I knew she was studying abroad in Spain, and the last we talked, we just sent each other like, a Facebook message saying, like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to Skype, because we would Skype at the time. Can't wait to Skype when you get back from Spain. I can't wait to hear all about and she's like, yes, like, as soon as I get back to the states, we'll Skype. And so I just post on her Facebook wall, like, I can't wait to catch up soon. I can't wait to hear all about Spain, like I miss you, like all these things, and I post it, and then I scroll down her page just to see other birthday posts. And there's a lot of posts, but they all said Rest in peace, and that is how I found out that she died was from her Facebook page, and she had died just a few or a handful of hours before the night of her birthday. And long story short, she fell off a balcony and died.
Jennifer Levin
Oh, my goodness, finding out like that is so difficult. You're by yourself. You're learning on it, on social media. Were you able to connect with anybody or family? How did you get more information? What did you even do?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, I mean, I felt completely lost, and I went totally numb for the first few minutes. The first thing I did was call my parents, and I just remember, it's hard to think back to that time, but I just remember crying on the phone and my mom saying a prayer just so I could get to the next few minutes. And I did connect to Lauren's mom. I'm grateful for Facebook because I didn't, you know, I didn't have Lauren's mom's or her parents phone numbers. I don't know how I would have connected with them otherwise, but I sent her mom a Facebook message, and I think she was really grateful for the connection too. I think it was we were both grateful for it, but her mom and I kind of developed a connection, and we would message each other frequently, and then she died a few years later. So yeah, just, and I feel like this is very common with grief, is that there are just so many layers of grief and so many layers of loss that can keep happening.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, what was your grief like in those early days, months after her her death.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, I the best way for me to describe it is that, like, first of all, I was 23 I barely had a foundation of an adult life, so that didn't help. Yeah, and I wish I had a therapist to tell me that, you know, so I could understand what was going on, but I felt like my life was a house of cards that had fallen over. So, you know, I realized that first that it had been cards the whole time, you know, oh, like, What even was my life? It was so fragile, like, like, what? And then I had to kind of start from scratch. And my friends changed. I you know, I've heard on your podcast and on other in other conversations, that people's contact lists change because you're the people you think or hope will support you sometimes don't. So that changed. What I wanted to do with my life changed. I was looking at psychology grad school programs and like that, desire just flew out the window. And I actually did something that was really out of character for me before, like, I have always been, like, really straight laced, like academic, like, play your life by the book, and I threw everything away, basically, and I moved to Chicago and took improv classes. And that was my only plan. I didn't have any other plan.
Jennifer Levin
That was very brave and courageous. And at the same time, I was recently talking with a 30 year old who lost someone that they loved unexpectedly, and it just kind of changes the way you look at life, especially early on, knowing that you know when things like this happen and a total change in priority. How has your grief changed and shifted over the years?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, so it's it's changed in a lot of ways. First of all, there have been a lot of layers to this grief, I think because it was traumatic, not only in that it was just completely unexpected, but there were some questions about how she fell, why she fell, who she was with. It was suspicious. There could have been someone to blame. I kept finding out new and disturbing information every few years, which would just resurface all of the trauma again, so that so there was that, that is one way that it changed. And on the more positive side, I feel like, at least especially in the last several years, when I really was kind of like, I'm just going to lean into this grief. I'm gonna like be an open more of an open book about it. I'm not going to carry it around like this 1000 pound secret. I'm going to talk to people about it and try to find people to talk about it. I have felt so much lighter, like the world isn't as dark as it was. And even though why she died is very, very dark, I feel like the light is overshadowing it for the most part. And that has been a really amazing thing to happen. I wouldn't have thought, you know, 10, eight years ago, that that could be possible,
Jennifer Levin
yeah, such a juxtaposition in both, you know, finding out that new information, as we know grief has no timeline, especially in a traumatic loss, or someone that we love so dearly and so learning new things. I'm betting that took you right back to the day it happened, no matter how long it was, but at the same time, I'm hearing you allowed yourself to grow and evolve and look at new opportunities, maybe in a different way because of what happened?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like I could, I could tell you the exact day, actually, that this turning point happened. Um, yeah. So it was, you know, weirdly, I don't remember the year, but I remember the day because it was July 19, which is her birthday, and the the day of her passing. So several years ago, I took this storytelling class because I'm interested in that kind of stuff, and also I just like needed an outlet. And I'm so grateful to that class because there were three levels and level one, we tell a five minute story. Level 2 20-minute level three, we built it up to an hour show, and if it didn't take me in those baby steps, I would not have been able to talk about Lauren for an hour, because in class one, I was sobbing through the five minutes and was barely comprehensible. But it was like I had to go through that to then make it to the next step to then make it to the next step. So then I remember it was 2020 because it was during covid, because I performed it over zoom and I did the show, and it was like unburdening how I was really feeling to all my friends and family all at the same time. And I just truly, like, in my body, I felt like a different person, like it's hard to, it's cliche, but it felt like that 1000 pound weight had been lifted. And then I looked at my phone, and I saw it was July 19, and it was like, I didn't even, for some reason, look at the date or, like, know what date it was. And I felt like that was like, us, I believe in signs. And I felt like that was a sign from Lauren of like, follow this. Like this. Whoa, you're on the right track. Like, keep going. Like, this is how you'll continue to heal.
Jennifer Levin
Wow, that does sound like an important moment, and also such a release, many people get to a point where they're able to work through grief through different forms of creativity and and that was definitely having that opportunity. I love how they tiered that five minutes, 15 all of that, because, you know, in grief, we have to start with such baby steps, and so that really gave you an opportunity to build. So when I was looking through your website, and one of the things that I love, that you talk about is disenfranchised grief, and this is grief that's often minimized or unrecognized by society. It's not important enough explain what disenfranchised grief means to you and what your experiences were like with disenfranchised grief after Lauren's death.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah. So the best way for me to describe it, and then I'll go into details of how it felt, is that disenfranchised grief is not supported, validated or acknowledged by our dominant culture. And I didn't learn that term disenfranchised grief until actually, a couple years ago, but without knowing it, I was experiencing it the whole time. And if you're experiencing it and you don't know what it is, you don't have that label for it, it can kind of start to feel a bit like you're being gaslit by the world. And you know, while there were people who are very supportive, what we, of course, remember the most vividly often, are the people who are not so I'll just give a couple examples to kind of show these. It's kind of like death by a million paper cuts, like these little million instances where people were dismissing my grief without me again having that, knowing that's what was happening, where, like, I went back to work a couple days after Lauren died, because no bereavement leave for friend loss. Yeah, so that's one away society dismisses. It didn't clock that at all. When that happened, I went to work and, well, overall, they were very supportive and hugging me and saying, I'm so sorry. Then one of the co workers said something that I will never forget. She turned to me and she said, You know, one day, you won't think about your friend so much anymore. And I just remember shaking like my whole body was shaking like she'd like, thrown a bucket of cold water on my face. Because I'm like, What are you talking about? I'm going to think about her for the rest of my life. And it wasn't until years later that I thought she probably would not have said that to me if I'd had a parent die, or, like a spouse die, I think she would have been less likely to say that to me.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent example.
Hannah Rumsey
So it's like small ways like that and and in many different ways, from different people, in addition to the societal structure that wasn't there, no bereavement leave, no grief groups that I could find that had groups for friend loss. I'd search online they'd have, you know, parent loss, spouse loss, sibling loss, pet loss and no friend loss. And this, I see this as a yes and, yes we need all of those groups for those groups of people desperately. And we need friend loss groups. There's no group for us to go to except the general loss groups. And I thought this was just me at first, and I'm just bad at googling. But I then, when I really started to talk to people to this day, 2026 they're like, Oh no, I can't find a single one. Your website is the first one I've ever found ever and I've searched for 10 years.
Jennifer Levin
Wow, wow. I had a friend of mine die probably were going on three and a half years ago, and the circumstances again, were just very, very sad. She wasn't found for quite a long time. She lived by herself, and I just found very similar, you know, I mentioned it to some of my friends, and they're, oh, I'm sorry. And then it was, like, never brought up again. And it was something I didn't bring up because, I mean, I know this, this is my work, this is what I do. But I didn't talk about it with other people. I still think about her all the time. She left me something amazingly special that is so meaningful. And yeah, I just don't talk about it because it's just not something most people are going to acknowledge or think about asking again, because, like you said, it's not a parent, a spouse or somebody that you know is a biological family member, and these days, a lot of us choose our own family, and so friends can be just like family. What do you wish people had said or understood or done differently?
Hannah Rumsey
So I really see this in two categories, like one, I wish someone had told me that I was experiencing a disenfranchised grief and had given me that specific friend loss support. And two, I wish someone had told me that this was traumatic grief. And you tell me if that's the correct term.
Jennifer Levin
Everybody uses different terms, but usually after it's grief that follows a sudden and unexpected loss, and it has a combination of symptoms of perhaps trauma or a stress response or anxiety response, along with the grief.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, yeah, that what you just said absolutely. Like, I wish someone had explained that to me and like, I feel like, because, in general, our society is pretty bad at dealing with grief in general, I wasn't given specific support. I feel like I was given very general support, and I think I really needed help from someone like you, and from like a friend loss group, I needed to connect with people who had also lost friends. I needed really specific support, and I didn't get it.
Jennifer Levin
You needed a community who understood, yeah, what was the turning point? Do you remember the moment or how it evolved when you realized that you. Needed to create friends, missing friends.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, so I feel like the turning point was actually that day that I took that storytelling class and did that one hour show. Because after the show, one, like I felt the unburdening in myself. And then two, I got an email from a stranger who ended up becoming a friend, actually. And she was just like, you don't know me, but I saw your show, and I also lost a friend, and you put my grief into words, and I didn't think that that was possible. And so like, Thank you, basically. And that's when I realized, like, oh, like, our stories also help other people. Like, our stories help each other. And so I really think that that was the turning point when I was like, Okay, I want to open up these conversations more. And I started the podcast, friends, missing friends, which has been, now I'm growing it into a community.
Jennifer Levin
Tell us more about it.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, so, um, just about, or, yeah, a couple months ago, I launched the friends, missing friends collective, uh, which is an online community. Right now, it's online. I definitely want to have in person aspects as it continues to grow. But I offer, or I'm creating, a community that has four main sources of support, which is the group support, where we have groups and support each other, one on one support where I can have sessions with them, and one day I'll, like, have a buddy system where I'll buddy people up. And outside support, I've created, like, a kind of curated list of grief support and counselors around the world, because I know finding support is so overwhelming, and I want to help them with that. And then digital support. So then, even outside the groups, I have a discord channel, and people can pop on and ask for help at any time or connect with other people who are losing friends.
Jennifer Levin
That's amazing. And what about your podcast?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, so the podcast, I see it kind of as a trifecta, or like Venn diagram, where really, in order to understand friend loss grief, I feel like I also have to talk about friendships and grief in general. And so each episode is kind of about one of the three, either grief, friend loss grief specifically, or friendships. And I talk to people who have also lost friends, grief experts, and that's kind of my main focus right now on the podcast.
Jennifer Levin
Oh, wow. Well, it's, I've listened to some of the episodes, and they're just, they're just great. What has this experience taught you about friendship, love and loss?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, a lot. I mean, it's taught me that, you know, society. I mean, I really, really, I saw it so clearly how society has a hierarchy of love, where they put friendships on the bottom and and, you know, familial love and partner love, or romantic loves, is above it. And I realized that, like, really, kind of, like, with friendships, we're kind of off the grid, quote, unquote, like, there's no laws around friendships. There's no like, there's a lot less government or social support around friendships. They don't really feed the economy. I have this theory that, like, marriage is pushed partly because it's really feeds the economy. That's my cynical side that believes that. But, like, friendships, you know, there's kind of no need for the media to push it, because what, you know, it lives kind of outside the economy. So I'm kind of like, okay, how can I kind of push against that and like, despite what society says, How can I make them like, one of the most important aspects of my life? So that's what I've learned about friendships, but with love and loss, like I really see like, love and grief are two sides of the same coin, and if and that the grief that you feel is kind of equal and opposite to the love that you feel. Like that pain, the love is so intense, so the pain will be so intense. And it was kind of recently that I had what for me was an epiphany. And I think a lot of people already know this, but for me, it was like a light bulb moment, which is that the limit to love does not exist
Jennifer Levin
So well said.
Hannah Rumsey
And it's like, it's also like, kind of cheeky, because it's like, from mean. I don't know if you've seen Mean Girls that movie where she's like, the limit does not exist.
Jennifer Levin
Long time ago, long time ago. But yeah, yeah. And that's, I don't know how familiar you are with the concept of continued bonds, but it's like we continue relationships with people we love even when they're not physically present, and so that love is still there and there is no there is no limit. If you could speak with Lauren today, what would you want her to know about what you're doing with your life and how she influenced what you created.
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, I actually, it's interesting because I, I speak to her all the time, and I'm often like, Am I doing okay? Like, I hope. I hope this is I hope this will be good, like, I hope I help people like and I ask her for signs if she wants to send them. I don't know how that works. And I'm like, if it's too much energy, I don't want to make you do something that's exhausting. But like, I'd love a sign. And then I do feel like she has sent me signs that have really encouraged me and put fuel in the fire. So yeah, like, what I want to tell her, and I continue to tell her, is like, I love you so much. I miss you, and I hope I'm doing okay.
Jennifer Levin
I love that you talk to her I do, and that continued bond and and really that what you've created keeps you so connected to her, just kind of as a final question, what would you say to somebody who just experienced the death of a best friend or a close friend and feels alone in their grief doesn't even know how to start this?
Hannah Rumsey
Yeah, it it absolutely breaks my heart, and really, I've kind of distilled it to your grief and love are valid, and your grief and love are real, because society and that disenfranchisement is going to make you, might make you question that. And so that is kind of like I kind of had to convince myself of that, because I was being so affected by these messages from from the world. And I really just had to tell myself, No, like it's real, like the love is real. And I I do deserve to feel this sad, and I would just tell myself that over and over. So your grief and love are valid. Your grief and love are real nice.
Jennifer Levin
And where can people learn more about friends, missing friends and the collective and the podcast and all of that?
Hannah Rumsey
So my website is friends, missing friends.com, and I'm on Instagram at friends, missing friends, so I have information about the collective on the website. You can also email me. It's friendsmissingfriends@gmail.com, I tried to make things easier. Remember good. So it's all friends, missing friends. Yeah, and I welcome DMS emails, even if you just like want to tell me your story, please reach out.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, I love that witnessing and companioning Somebody is so important, and we'll make sure all of that gets in the show notes so people have that information. So Hannah, thank you so much for your time today, for sharing Lauren with us, for sharing what you've created with the world. This is such an important resource, like we've talked about, all grief and loss is valid and unique and different, but there's some common themes and patterns, and knowing that now there's a place where people can come for support, it's definitely something I will be referring people to as well. So thank you for your time.
Hannah Rumsey
Thank you for having me. You.
Jennifer Levin
Thank you to Hannah for her honesty, vulnerability, and the meaningful work she is doing to bring visibility to friend loss and disenfranchised grief.
Jennifer Levin
And thank you to you, our listeners, for being here—for listening, for witnessing, and for allowing space for these conversations that are often hard, but so necessary.
Jennifer Levin
If you are grieving the loss of a friend—or any significant loss—and finding that your grief isn’t fully recognized or supported, please know this: your grief is real, your love is valid, and you are not alone.
Jennifer Levin
To learn more about Hannah’s work, you can visit friendsmissingfriends.com or connect with her community online. And if you are looking for additional support and guidance after a sudden or traumatic loss, I invite you to visit therapyheals.com to learn more and sign up for my online Traumatic Grief Companion Course. Bye for now.
