ļ»æJennifer Levin
Hi everyone and welcome back to Untethered: Healing the pain from a sudden death. I am Dr. Jennifer Levin, and I specialize in traumatic death and helping individuals through the struggles, pain, trauma, and chaos of an unexpected death.
We are back today after a lengthy break mid-summer 2024. We waited to release our first interview in 2025 out of respect to those impacted by the Southern California Fires.
Today interview is with Sara Cobb and she starts her powerful story with the statement that she was born into traumatic grief. Sara shares her older brother died less than a year before she was born and describes the impact it had on her and her other older sibling growing up. She describes how grief shaped her family life, career choices, and the second devastating loss she endured later in her life. Finally, she shares the amazing resource that she has developed to help others who are grieving similar losses that has made a significant contribution in the healing process for those grieving multiple losses.
Hi Sarah, and welcome. Thank you so much for agreeing to be on today's podcast. We have been trying to arrange a time for so long for us to get together. I feel like it's been almost a year, and between both of our schedules, it's been really hard, but it's so worth it to finally have a chance to sit down and be with you today. So why don't you start off and can you please just introduce yourself to everyone?
Sara Cobb
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much, just first of all, for having me on the podcast and for being so patient with me as we've been trying to arrange for all of this, I really appreciate it, and I so appreciate the work that you do to help people with the effects of sudden loss and traumatic grief. That is definitely a topic that's really close to my heart. So, thank you. I'm happy to be here today. Um, so yeah, a little info for your listeners. About me is I live outside of Boise, Idaho. It's a place I've called home for almost 30 years. Over the past 30 years, I guess, for most of that time. Anyway, I originally moved here to pursue my undergraduate degree at a small liberal arts university, and although I spent a handful of years living other places, I ended up finding my way back here and back to this community. I was actually born in Seoul, South Korea. My parents served as missionaries there, and we returned to the US when I was about three. So, I ended up growing up as a pastor's kid. And, you know, we moved around a lot. So, my childhood was shaped by, you know, those frequent changes and adjustments. So, I think it gave me some unique perspective on adaptability and on connection and what those things mean. I have three brothers, two older and one younger, and I'm a proud aunt to a wonderful niece and nephew who are in their 20s now, which is crazy. I can't believe they're still growing up, but my family's dynamic and experiences have really significantly influenced my journey and the person I am today. Of course, professionally, my journey has been pretty diverse and a little unconventional, so I had some stops in some kind of disparate seeming careers, I guess, but it's interesting that there's actually been things about all of those that have kind of coalesced into what I'm doing now, I was in the film and TV industry for a few years. I actually worked a couple seasons on the show, touched by an angel. I worked as a professional massage therapist, and then I had many rewarding years working in public libraries, in the Reference Department, so helping people find resources. And then today, I'm actually back at my alma mater. I'm in graduate school. I'm nearing the finish line of my Master of Counseling program, in grief, trauma and crisis. Yeah, I'm so excited to be almost done, and if everything goes as planned, I'll graduate in May 2025, and right now I'm in my counseling internship, so I'm working with a variety of clients, set up behavioral health agency, and then I also facilitate court mandated domestic violence treatment groups with male and female offenders. And then all you can tell, probably from all of that, like my path has been anything but linear, but every step has brought me closer to where I need to be and what my purpose is. And you know, this phase of my professional life is really personal, and my journey into counseling is rooted in my own experience of grief, and if I hadn't endured significant personal losses, I know I wouldn't be doing this work today. And those losses inspired me to create my passion project, which we'll talk about, My Grief Connection. It's an online resource hub for people navigating the complex, complexities, challenges you know that grief brings, and that's a project that came from my desire to help others find support and community that they need, just like I needed for my own journey and grief. So, what drives me is the idea that we can take the hardest parts of our life, the most hurtful, painful things, and use those to help fuel our connection to others and create resources and help other people with their healing, as well as heal ourselves.
Jennifer Levin
I'm so excited for our conversation. I know you've had a lot of difficult experiences, but you're just such a representation of when we've had difficult things that we can do and create beautiful futures and meaning from what's happened. So last week, we had a chance to prepare for our conversation today and I was so struck by just this powerful statement you made in the very beginning, which was, I was born into traumatic grief. And why don't you just start there and talk about what you mean by that comment, and obviously the story that was connected to that.
Sara Cobb
Yeah, when I say I was born into traumatic grief, it's because my family had already experienced a just horrific loss right before I was born, actually. I had an older brother named Steven who tragically died in an accidental electrocution just before he turned seven. This was actually in Korea when my parents were missionaries. So they were, they were there when this happened, and then I was born just 11 months after Steven's death. So, you know, I think it, it really affected me, like my you know, I wasn't even conceived yet when he died, but so shortly after that, you know, the whole time, you know that my mom was pregnant with me. Of course, the family was in just this deep morning. And so I just can't, I can't imagine that I wasn't affected by that. You know, being in in utero, right, when your mom is going through such powerful emotions like, I think it, I think it, there's something about that epigenetic effect. I think, I don't know all the science behind that, but I think there's something there, right, where I was absorbing kind of a lot of the emotion that my family was going through, but then also my birth, I think, was something that that helped them in their process of grieving and a little bit of healing in those early days. Was that anticipation of having this new baby and the joy that, you know, my birth did bring to them, yeah, it helped them a lot, and it helped my older brother, Skyler, was just four years old when this happened, so I think it really helped him to have a new sibling, although, of course, I didn't replace Steven. That's not how it works. But I think it was, it was, it was very healing for him to have another sibling in the family and not just be this only child and just be thinking all the time right about the loss and the empty, the empty space in the family. So, I think it was helpful. You know, my parents didn't hide Steven's story or their grief like they did speak about him. They shared moments about him openly when I was, you know, growing up, and his life was a part of our family's narrative. So, it wasn't a secret. However, it wasn't it also wasn't a dominant topic in the conversation. And it's not like we talked about it all the time, but it was, you know, woven into the background of our lives. And I think that acknowledged, you know, his significance, but also allowed space for the other parts of our story to to unfold as well. And you know, I do have a younger brother as well. He was born when I was about seven, which is interesting it was about the time I was about the age that Steven was, when he died, when, when my younger brother, Adam, was born. So, I don't know if there's a connection there at all, but anyway, just thought of that right now, interesting, but he brought much joy into our life as well, and changed the dynamic again. And yeah, you know, so our family kept growing, and I think that was a positive thing for my parents to continue, you know, to have these other children that they they wanted. But our dynamic, you know, was unique. And growing up, I think I was aware of grief and its impact in a way that maybe a lot of children are not, and seeing how my family balanced remembering Steven, you know, with moving forward, I think, was important for me, and helpful in ways I didn't realize it would be until, until I had my own, like, real personal grief experience,
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, now if I remember correctly, Skyler witnessed Steven's death. What was that like for him? And did you notice anything in terms of a trauma effect for Skyler, because it was a traumatic death for Steven, how did that impact Skyler?
Sara Cobb
Yeah, Skyler was right there when Steven was electrocuted. This happened outside on an electrical tower in Korea. I think these transformer towers are kind of smaller than they are here. I don't really know exactly what it looked like, but I think it was one that had some little ladder or some little footholds or whatever. So, Steven had climbed up on that, and he had a toy gun in his hand, and that touched a loose wire and caused the electrocution. But Skyler was there, like at the bottom of this, like watching and probably wanting to climb up that tower too, right? But maybe he was a little too small to do that, so he, he really, you know, saw this all happen, and Steven was electrocuted, but he did not die instantly. He did survive the initial electrocution, but then his organs failed over the course of several hours and so he died, I think about 30-36, hours later. But yeah, that was is a very traumatic, shocking thing. There was a lot of there was smoke, there was loud sounds, there was, you know, fire, all that kind of stuff that was happening. And so, I think that really, that traumatic event really affected Skyler on a very deep level. And, you know, especially in the beginning, of course, you know, the shock of it all was really tough on him. And he had, I think, a lot of problems sleeping. And, you know, like, I think he wet the bed some for a while after that. And, you know, just had some difficulty, some attachment, like anxiety, you know, not wanting to be separated from our parents and stuff like that for quite a while. And that was really tough. And I know my parents had reached out to a child psychologist at the time. But this was the mid 70s, so and in Korea, they were living in Korea, they came home for two weeks for the funeral and to bury Steven, and then they went back, right back to work. So not really any time to grieve. Like two weeks is nothing in grief time, right? So I think that they just didn't know any other way to cope, right? It was just you kind of get back to things and they, of course, were very religious and spiritual, and so they relied on their faith as their main kind of support. And there just weren't a lot of options right, to even maybe, I don't even know if they had anyone they could have taken him to in Korea at that time, but I know, when they were in the States, they consulted with a child psychologist that basically told them that, well, he's so young, he's not going to remember anything. You know, kids are resilient. He'll just he'll be okay. He'll bounce back. He might be sad for a little while, but, you know, he'll be fine, you know, it, which to me is it kind of blows my mind now, because that's not how we think about these kinds of traumas anymore, right? Yeah, there's like, a need for that support right away, if possible, you know. But it really affected him, and even though he was so young, he carried the weight of being, you know, the survivor of that. I think he had a lot of survivorā€™s guilt growing up. And I think, you know, Steven was kind of more the, I mean, I think they were both good kids back then, of course, like, you know, they were sweet kids and everything. But I think that Skyler started to see Steven as, like the angel child, right, the Golden Boy, you know, like the good kids, the Saint, yes. And himself as more of the troublemaker, right? The one that was more the rebel and caused problems, right? Or the black sheep kind of, and he wasn't, I don't think at all, but I think he worked himself into that role as he grew up. As a teenager, he really did struggle with being rebellious. And you know, he would get into trouble like he would, he, when he was, I think 15, went in a joy ride in my dad's church car, and then got in an accident and flipped it three times, and ride motorcycles very fast, and got in a bad motorcycle accident once as a teen. And, you know, he was into rock music and had his hair really long and teased out. And, you know, it was that era, right?
Jennifer Levin
What was your relationship with Skyler growing up?
Sara Cobb
We were, you know, I think we were kind of typical, brother, sister, older brother, little sister, for a lot of the time. And we were close, and we got along pretty well. But then, you know, as he was becoming more of a teenager, I think we did have more of our kind of disagreements and stuff. And, you know, he would tease me sometimes, and, you know, just but, but overall, like, you know, we were pretty close, I think, and we got definitely a lot closer as adults, right? We were very close by the time of his passing later, which we'll get to. But you know, I think we're we appreciated each other. You know, we appreciated that we had each other, knowing that life is tenuous and that things can happen. I think we tried to take care of each other. He was very much a protector for me, I think, a lot of my life, and I could really, really rely on him, and whenever I needed anything or needed support. I remember one time when I was in college, I was driving from Utah to Idaho during the winter, I think it was for Christmas or something, and it was stormy and it was snowing and icy, and I was on the freeway, I was like, super scared driving, but all of a sudden I hit some ice, and my car turned around, like, completely around, and I slid off the side of the road into the ditch, kind of, basically, and there were, like, big trucks going by. It was, like, very scary. I literally was as I was spinning, thinking, this is how I'm going to die. I'm going to get hit here as soon as my car came to a stop. Like, literally seconds afterwards, my phone rang. My cell phone rang, and it was Skyler, and he said, Are you okay? That was the first words out of his mouth. And I was like, I think so I just slid off the freeway, like two seconds ago so I'm a little freaked out, but I'm alive. So it was just one of those. We had several times, you know, where we would have little almost psychic moments or something, you know, connection, especially him, he was very in tune with me in that way. And there were many times over the years where we would, you know, finish each other's sentences. Or, you know we would be really in sync about things. I yeah, I felt like we had a close connection in that way as well.
Jennifer Levin
You mentioned that his mental health struggles increased over the years. What happened?
Sara Cobb
Yeah, you know, during that teenage phase and that rebellion phase like he, he did make some real dumb decisions. But I think some of that was due to impulsiveness, that it could be related to his later mental health struggles. I'm not exactly sure, but he ended up, you know, doing some stupid things. He ended up in jail for a couple of years. When he was, I think 16, maybe 15. I think he was 16, though, and spent two years in in prison, basically, for a crime he did that, you know, nobody was hurt or anything, but it was just a, you know, stupid, a stupid thing, and that was a tough experience for him. He got his GED when he was in jail and had, he was very, very smart and got into college, and, you know, just kind of decided to start this new life, right, and, and get back on track with things. And so he did go to college, two different colleges, actually, and ended up double majoring and became the student body president of his university, and was on crew, and was into biking. He was very active and outdoorsy. So, you know, he, he did really change his life around, but as, I think, as he got into his 20s and 30s, would have mood fluctuations, and, you know, sometimes he'd be super energetic and, like, just get everything done. And he was very much like, on top of the world and, you know, but also kind of impulsive, right? And doing kind of risky behaviors, like he was a little bit of an adrenaline junkie, right? Like skydiving and riding motorcycles and biking and doing all that stuff. But then he would have times where he would get pretty depressed, right and pretty unmotivated and would struggle right with just day to day tasks and stuff like that. So eventually he was diagnosed with bipolar two disorder. That's what I question about, you know, like, was he already struggling with some of that as a teenager? Like, when did that shift, right? Did the TBIs, you know, that stuff? You know, did that increase? You know, the symptoms? I don't know, but yeah, so the poor guy had so much, so many, challenges starting at such a young age, and then just things sort of snowballed on him, I think, and but he was able, once he was diagnosed and was on medication, and, you know, like trying to make lifestyle changes, he did stabilize for the most part, pretty well. But you know, if he would, if he would slack on his self-care, right? If he would stop taking meds, or if he would, you know, just not be taking himself care of himself very well, not eating right. You know, not doing, not getting enough sleep, or things like that. Sometimes he had a lot of, he felt a lot of internal pressure, I think, to achieve and to, I think, in some ways, and I felt this somewhat too, but like, I think he felt a little bit of responsibility to really live life and live a full life and do all the things and achieve a lot because Stevie didn't get that chance. So there is that pressure on those left behind, those siblings left behind when a sibling dies, you know, to live for them in a way, right, and to make them proud.
You asked about the impact of Steven's death on our family and on my growing up. And I think it had a lot of impact, right? It was definitely something that just changed the whole trajectory, I think, of our family's existence. Growing up in a family touched by loss meant that there was always this, this understanding about how fleeting and precious life is, and it made us all, I think, a bit more sensitive to the emotions of others, and a little bit more empathetic and at the same time, I think growing up in the shadow of my brother's loss gave me a heightened sense of responsibility, and, you know, to live this full life to honor Him, to to honor this person that I never met. And to live up to his legacy, so to speak. So, you know, I had moments I think of wondering, would I even exist at all if he hadn't died? And that thought, you know, brought a lot of pressure to strive for perfection and to try to live a meaningful. Life, not just for myself, but for him and for my whole family, like feeling like I needed to be the sort of glue, like to repair us right, to bring the family together and to be able to kind of help us transition right from his loss into whatever life was going to be after that, and to make up, you know, for the life you didn't have the chance to live. And I'm sure that Skyler felt some of that too, maybe a little differently than I did, you know, but I think we both kind of felt that, like that pressure to sort of be good kids and to to fill this emptiness, right, this space that was left in our family when Steven died.
Jennifer Levin
Gosh, what a what a heavy load to carry.
Sara Cobb
Yeah, it is. It's lightened a lot since I've kind of, you know now as an adult, and as actually, after Skyler died, and I was really processing my own grief about Skyler's death, I also had to process a lot about Steven's death too, right, and really come to some new understanding, right, and a new a new narrative right about my life and why I'm here and all of that, right? Because I think I have this false narrative for a long time about what my job in life was, right, or what my job and my family was, and I'm still in the process of rewriting that to some degree, right, because it's, it's kind of deep, deeply ingrained in there. I mean, I just a lot of that was kind of running on the unconscious level, I think for a long time.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah.
Sara Cobb
So for Skyler, he really spoke a lot about Stevie over the years. To me, we had some really great conversations where he shared a bit about his experience with that loss and how deeply affecting it was to him. And, you know, I think he had a big burden right, to try to be strong and responsible as a kid, and it's a lot, it's a lot for a kid to carry that right and to and to be the one left behind, right and to feel like, I think he felt like there should have been something that he did right. He could, he should have figured out a way to prevent Stevie from climbing up that tower. Or, you know, like he, he should have run and told dad or something before, before that happened. Or, you know what I mean? I think it's all the what if, or should have, the what ifs. I think they kind of haunted him a bit. He got married and was a stepdad, and then had his own biological son as well, and did really well for a long time with that. But then, you know, some things shifted, and eventually his marriage ended, and he started a new phase of life and ended up in a relationship with a woman he had known for a long time, he had worked with previously, they had been really good friends for years, and then when they're they were both single, both divorced, they decided to see if they could make a relationship work. They had their emotional challenges, their own grief stories, I think that contributed to some of their issues. And in 2018 you know, our family experienced an imaginable tragedy, when, when Skyler and his fiancƩ, Chrissy, died in a murder suicide, and it was at his hand, so he was the perpetrator, and that was something that just was so hard to understand, right? And, you know, they were so close, they shared this really deep bond. We thought things were going really well. We did not have really any signs that something was, you know, like this was going to happen, obviously. So it was something that all of us who were affected by their death, you know, we're just really shocked by it, and it was really hard to understand, like, how this could happen. So, yeah, so both of their kind of struggles, their emotional struggles, independently, but then also kind of the relationship issues made things sometimes pretty difficult for them. And you know, those personal stressors they had, the external stressors those contributed to some moments of strain and turbulence in their relationship. And so that that did all come to head one night. It was actually on July 4, 2018, when things came to this perfect storm, sort of crisis point, and in a moment of despair and loss of control, and I don't know what else, lots of things I think came to a head, and he ended up taking Chrissy life before he took his own.
Jennifer Levin
That's absolutely devastating. How did you cope with that grief?
Sara Cobb
Yeah, it was really hard. I don't think I coped very well in the beginning, that's for sure. You know, it was basically like kind of a grenade went off right in our family, and there was just this shrapnel everywhere, right, just devastation all over the place. We were all just so reeling from it, and, you know, just trying to grapple with the overwhelming grief and all the unanswered questions and the complex emotions that follow something like this, not something you can ever prepare for.
Jennifer Levin
Of course.
Sara Cobb
And it's not just the, I think if it was just a suicide, which is terrible enough, like that would have been overwhelming enough. And, like, still confusing. And like, what in the world, you know, like, we would have been devastated by that but to add on that other layer, yeah, harder and him taking someone's life, this person that we would never think would be capable of, that you know, did this thing, it's so hard to wrap your mind around. It's so hard to accept, and it's that there were things maybe happening in the relationship we didn't know about, you know, like the dynamics in the relationship. I mean, obviously, unless you're in a relationship, right, you don't really know what's happening fully. But it just makes you question a lot, like, did I really know this person like I thought I did, you know, and then other people are questioning too, right? Other people outside of the family, right? The close family and friends make all kinds of assumptions, right, and judgments about your person, and that's really hard to hear, right?
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, what type of resources were available to you?
Sara Cobb
Not much, really, not much at all. I could not find anything on murder, suicide. I think maybe one or two articles that that people had written having to do with murder suicide, but nothing that was very helpful. I think there was one article that my other brother Adam found that was about a man who had lost his brother and his brother's partner girlfriend in a murder suicide, like, 20 years before. So it was some kind of reflecting a little bit on the anniversary of that. And that was sort of helpful. But really there wasn't much, as far as actual, like, you know, support for murder suicide loss, like, I just couldn't find anything. I searched for a long time. So, you know, I did end up finding a counselor after about three months, because I was just like, I couldn't really function very well. I mean, I was going to work. I went back to work within two weeks, maybe a week or two, and I actually found out the news when I was at work. So, it was traumatizing. I got the phone call while I was at work with my coworkers there listening to me, you know, well, cry, and everybody at work knew what happened. It was just, it was pretty rough. But at the same time, I felt like I needed something to do. I needed to be busy, right? I was, I needed some distraction from just thinking about this, like 24/7 and at the time, I was living with my parents, and we lived a half mile from where my brother had lived, so we were right in the same neighborhood where this happened. And so, we were all just like, you know, devastated and trying to, trying to figure out how to cope. And I felt a little useless sometimes, you know, at home, because, like, I can't really help them. I'm struggling.
Jennifer Levin
And this is the second child they've lost.
Sara Cobb
Second child they've lost in a very traumatic way, very differently, obviously. But like, I mean, they were just devastated, you know, that's not even a strong enough word. I don't even know. Yeah, there is no word. And just blaming themselves and feeling like, how could this have happened? What could we have done to prevent this? You know, like feeling like failures as parents, all of that. And, you know, I, I also asked myself questions, because Skylar and I did have that bond, right? Um, I wondered why my spidey sense didn't go off that day, right? And my sister sense, I guess maybe that's the right word for it. I talked to him on the phone that afternoon, and everything was fine. Everything seemed normal. His ex-wife had talked to him on the phone that day, and that was a normal conversation for them. And like it was, there was nothing just to indicate, right? There was no nervous system alert right to tell me that something was wrong, and I needed to call him or check on him. Yeah. So that was hard. That was really hard for a long time I thought like if I had only had a sense. If I had only called him that night or something that interrupted whatever was going on that spiral, right? If I had reached out, or we had them come over for dinner that night or something, right? That maybe this wouldn't have happened. So, I was in that that place for a long time, right for several months of just constantly, like beating myself up and questioning everything. And just feeling like there's no hope.
Jennifer Levin
So you worked with your therapist, and then one day, mygriefconnection.org, tell me about tell us about that because I know the timing for that was meaningful as well.
Sara Cobb
Absolutely, yeah. Like, you know, we talked about like, there aren't really any or there weren't really any resources for suicide loss, and had the counseling, and that helped so much. It definitely helped. And then I was able to connect with a local suicide loss support group, and so I did start attending those that was probably about nine months, maybe after the deaths. That helped me kind of realize that, like, Okay, I'm not totally alone in this, right? There are other people going through similar type of things, even though I felt a little like the odd man out, because it wasn't just the suicide there was the murder side, which isn't really addressed in the suicide loss group. But I would tell my story, and I would always kind of feel, although they were supportive, like, internally, I would kind of feel like, are they judging me? Are they judging him because of this? And do I have the right to grieve someone who committed a murder, you know, like, that's a lot. But the group did help. They were very welcoming, and so that that helped quite a bit. And then I just, I just kind of kept looking, I kept googling to try to find anything that would help, right? And I looked a lot for, you know, suicide loss support, because that there didn't seem to be the murder and suicide loss support together. And a little bit for the homicide loss. There's not that much for that either. But I just, you know, kept looking and trying to find anything locally, especially that I could plug into, and I just started bookmarking things. But there just wasn't a lot. And a lot of times I would call groups, or I would email, and nobody would respond, or they'd say, well, that group we don't meet anymore, like we disbanded, and I was, well, then, why is it on the you know, like, what? There's nothing. It was hard to find things that were valid, right, that were actually still working and so I did get frustrated about that, and I mentioned that to my counselor in one of our sessions about three weeks before the one year anniversary of the deaths. And I was just kind of complaining, Why is there nothing out there for this, you know? And she was like, you're right. There's, there is a lack of resources. But I wonder if that's maybe something you could be part of, of finding a solution for and you know that that little statement kind of planted a seed in the brain, right? And I was kind of mad at first, because I was like, that's not fair, right? Why am I the one? I'm the one that's suffering on the victim, you know, of this loss, survivor of this loss, of why do I have to do the work, right, to find these resources, or to bring them together somehow, or to develop something to help other people. But the more I thought about it, the more I was like, you know, she's right, you know, like, It doesn't exist. I have to accept that, right? So what do I want to do with that information? Right? Do I want to just stew about it, or do I want to do something about it. And so, I was trying. I had been trying to think of what to do on the anniversary of the loss. Over those couple of weeks, two or three weeks, I just kept thinking about what she said, and I thought, you know, maybe I could do something. Maybe it's just even if I just shared a few of these resources that I had found that I thought were somewhat helpful, right? I could put up a website with a few links on it, maybe that would help someone else, if it just helped one other person, right, find a group or a counselor or a support event or something. Then, then I it felt like that would be a good thing, right? That would be a way I could honor my loved ones, and a way I could do something. I think I'm one of those instrumental grievers, if you know some of the grieving types doing something right to help. That's how I process a lot and information too, like I need to learn about it right and then do something. And so that's what I did on the one-year anniversary. I sat in a cafe and worked for like six hours until they closed, closed the doors and kicked me out, just trying to make a basic website. And I do not have web design training. I don't know what I'm doing, but I did maintain a small website that someone else had created for a group I was a part of. I kind of knew a little of that format, I guess, or that. I knew how to go in and do some basic things. And I just used that same platform. And I was like, okay, I'll just going to make a basic site, just going to put a few links on there and hit the public.
Jennifer Levin
Tell us about mygriefconnection.org, what will I want all of our listeners to go and check it out? What does, what does it do? I mean, what will they find there?
Sara Cobb
Well, my grief connection is really an online resource hub, so I don't sell anything like I'm not running programs, I'm not offering counseling or anything at this point. It's just a place I think of it like a giant grief bookmark for all the websites on the internet, right? All the all the groups, all the programs, all the events, all the like retreats and camps and books, movies, podcasts, crisis help, you know, articles, all that stuff, right? It's actually probably got too much information. Honestly, it's just lots and lots of links to information. I you know, it's, it's not as organized as I would like. Eventually, I would like to spend more time and maybe have some professional help to kind of make it a little more easy to navigate. But it's what I can do, right? And I figured it's better to do something than do nothing, and so that's, that's what I did. So, you know, there are some tabs and stuff to make it so you can kind of find certain categories of things. But yeah, it's just a place where I kind of dump all of those links and all those resources to both local for the Boise area and for Idaho, but also national, like things people can reach, can find anywhere or find in their area, but it's all the resources, the events, the articles, books, podcasts, all that stuff is there. So if you are going through your own type of loss and are struggling to find the support that you need. My Grief Connection is a good place to start, at least, you know, it's super-duper searchable it's not a directory, per se, just something I'd like to do eventually. But there is a little search bar at the top so you can type in a topic, a name, a word, you know, and it will, it will help you kind of narrow down right to those things on the website. If you're having a hard time navigating it, just know that that's an option. But yeah, this is just what I needed to do for myself, to process my grief and to feel like I was actively doing something for my grief and with my grief that was useful and that could help other people, and it was a way that I could let other people know that they're not alone, right, that there is support out there for all types of loss. Um, yeah, so it's been amazing to see how it's grown. It was just a very basic, like, one or two little pages in the beginning, and now there's dozens of pages and 1000s of links, probably, and I'm really proud of it, and I'm really, really touched by, you know the feedback I've gotten from people who have found it and have found resources there that have helped them. So, yeah, my mission is just to help people feel less alone.
Jennifer Levin
You know what? Grief is so isolating, and we need to feel less alone, absolutely. So, I have one more question for you, and that is, what advice? Because this is such an isolating experience, what advice would you give to somebody who is experiencing or finds himself in the middle of a murder suicide of loved ones, what would you tell them?
Sara Cobb
Such a hard, such a hard question.
Jennifer Levin
I know, I know. What would you say?
Sara Cobb
Losing anyone is to any means, is difficult and devastating. But I think with murder suicide, right, it's just incredibly complicated. Because, like I said, there's all these layers, and there's all, I mean, there's the murder side, the suicide side, and depending on how you're connected with the people involved, very complicated. Sometimes you're deeply connected to both people. Or sometimes there's more than one victim too. So I don't want to leave that out, but you could be connected to the victim side or the perpetrator side, or both. I know lots of people now that I am connected in the murder suicide loss community, which I help actually create, that it's super complicated. When you know you lose parents in a murder suicide, right, or siblings or a child, right? It's just wow. It's so hard, there's so much trauma, there's so many unanswered questions, and there's so many layers. It's just overwhelming, and it's hard to know where to start. I would encourage anyone going through this to seek out support in any way that you can, right, whatever feels comfortable to you. Some people may prefer, like peer support, right? Talking to other people who've lost someone either to a murder or to a suicide or both, preferably, or talking to a professional right? If you feel like you need that professional support, that counseling, I think, I think it is important for most people who are surviving a murder suicide to do some sort of therapeutic work. Because the of the trauma involved, right? It's different. I don't think grief is, is necessarily, you know, something that we always need to do therapy for. But we do need to process in some way. But the trauma part, we can't really process on our own very effectively. I think, I mean, there are some things we can do that can help. But if you're feeling like you're having those trauma symptoms, like PTSD type symptoms, or acute traumatic stress symptoms, then you might need to get some support from a professional who can help walk you through some sort of trauma protocol or use some trauma focused modality to help you. So don't, don't be afraid to do that, because it can help. It can help so much. You're not just getting that trauma, keeping that trauma stuck in your system. Don't navigate the loss alone, you know, try to find safe spaces or people that you can talk with. I think that's really important. Give yourself time, because it's a long process. It's a lifelong process, I think. And it doesn't mean you're going to be in the terrible work, you know, like just pit of it all, in the forever. But it's going to be hard for a while, for maybe a while, a long while. But there are things you can do to be moving forward, to be to be processing all those emotions and just be gentle with yourself and be compassionate if you're because I think that's where we get stuck sometimes thinking like I'm not where I should be in my grief. I'm grieving too hard. I'm not grieving hard enough. And that's not very helpful, right? We just, we got to allow ourselves to be where we're we are in the process, and be okay with that. And, you know, finding ways to honor the loved ones that you've lost.
For me that was really helpful. I think that's probably going to be a lot of help for other people. Finding little ways that you can stay connected with them, honor them, remember them, talk about them, tell their stories. And then just really, really connecting with others who can understand and validate the pain. That's really helpful. And I, I do want to mention that I did, I did finally connect with some other survivors of murder suicide, probably about two years, two and a half years, I think after Skyler died, it was about two years actually, I found an article written by another survivor of murder suicide, and I was likeā€¦
Jennifer Levin
Finally, my community.
Sara Cobb
We connected and I had some people reach out to me through my grief connection that had survived murder suicide, and she had a few people reach out to her because of her article. And eventually we ended up starting a group for murder-suicide loss survivors, because there wasn't any to join. We wanted to join a group, but there was none, so we had to start one. We started that group and was just small, like five. I think we had maybe four or five people on the first call, but we kept going, and we met probably every couple weeks for two years at least, and just kept growing and growing and growing. And then eventually the group now has kind of divided and into two different groups. So now there actually are two support groups for murder suicide losses. For loss there are two different organizations. The Murder-Suicide Loss network was kind of the one that was probably has some of the more original group members in it that kind of is going even though I'm not directly leading that group anymore, but they're doing their own thing, doing wonderful work, and then Impacted Survivors of Murder-Suicide is another organization that also started by some of the original members and some new members. And so those two groups now are leading support groups regularly and doing some other things. I think one of them has a podcast they're about to start. They're all they're both now getting information out there to survivors, letting them know they're not alone. I think they're both on social media. They're both on Instagram and Facebook. So, if you're, if you're in this category, this camp of murder, suicide, loss, and you need help, I would start by reaching out to those groups.
Jennifer Levin
We'll put that information in our Facebook group. So great. Thank you so much for your time today, for sharing all this information, sharing your story, your pain, your family, your brothers, all of that with us. It's such a pleasure to talk with you.
Sara Cobb
Thank you. It's been wonderful to talk with you, and it's always an honor for me to be able to talk about to talk about grief, to talk about support, to talk about my brothers and my family and you know, the journey that I've been on, and if it helps one person, right?
Jennifer Levin
Thank you. Take care, and we'll talk again soon.
In totality, Saraā€™s life long experience with traumatic grief is beyond overwhelming. I am so inspired by her story of determination to continue working through the continued pain and grief that she and her entire family has encountered and commitment to enter pursue a career dedicated to helping others in similar situations. She saw first hand the lack of resources available to meet her needs and developed support not only to help her move towards others but to create a lasting resource for others in need.
I want to thank Sara from the bottom of my heart for sharing her story and mygriefconnection with all of us today. If you would like to reach out to Sara please join our Facebook group ā€“ talking about the podcast Untethered with Dr Levin. Our show notes will also include information about her website as well.
To learn more about hope and guidance after sudden or unexpected death please visit therapyheals.com and sign up for my monthly newsletter Guidance in Grief at www.therapyheals.com. Bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
