Jennifer Levin
Hi everyone and welcome to Untethered: Healing the pain from a sudden death. I am Dr. Jennifer Levin, and I specialize in traumatic death and helping individuals through the struggles, pain, trauma, and chaos of an unexpected death.
Today I am interviewing Prudence Fenton, who experienced the unexpected death of her partner on Christmas Eve just prior to the beginning of COVID. Like most people who experience a sudden death, Prudence’s loss was a deeply personal, intimate and painful experience. However, unlike many, Prudence’s loss was also very public experience because her partner was a well known song writer and artist who asked Prudence to create a foundation and to document her legacy after her death. In today’s podcast we explore Prudence’s grief experiences, her coping mechanisms and how grief has changed her over time. She talks about how she felt to have the public grief her partner, what it was like to create her legacy, and where Prudence is in her life right now, a little over four years after her death.
Prudence, welcome. I'm really glad to have you here with us today. Let's start and I'd like to ask you to introduce yourself.
Prudence Fenton
My name is Prudence Fenton. I live in Los Angeles. I'm on this recording because I lost my partner of 28 years Allee Willis suddenly, unexpectedly, on Christmas Eve in 2019. She was a rather famous songwriter, artist, visionary of the internet. And I was sharing her loss with the world, it wasn't just my loss. And that proved to be very challenging.
Jennifer Levin
I bet. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, some of the things that you like to do a little bit about your background?
Prudence Fenton
Yeah, my background is in mixed media and animation. I started in 1985 doing MTV IDs, when, like it was culturally sort of an explosion when MTV brought rock videos to television and to the world. And I did the Peter Gabriel videos and I feel like with all the editing and visuals we did, it changed the way people looked at the world. I was also involved in a very special show called Pee Wee's Playhouse which went for five years and I did all the animation and special effects. Another show I did was Liquid Television where our goal was to change the channel before you could with a variety of animation styles and stories and you know visually exploding was sort of my mantra back then.
And then I did some internet stuff with Allee for about three years and I got too broke and had to go and get a job at Disney where I was doing bumpers for one Saturday morning and Saturday morning cartoons and I ended up working for Imagineering and doing the future of television. I've also been a bit of an innovator, or involved with innovations myself in terms of how you consume media, and how you make media.
The sort of my last job was six years at a company for augmented reality where you wear goggles and interact with the world through through goggles you see, you see your world but you see other things in that world that you know either expand your mind or play with you narratively.
Jennifer Levin
So much stuff, creatively so much that some of it I'm not very familiar with. But you and Allee must have been amazing together. The things that you had to talk about, explore, expand each other's horizons. That must have been amazing for you. Some of the people listening to this podcast might not know about Allee, who you said was very well known. Can you talk about some of the things that she did?
Prudence Fenton
Yes, I think the most impressive group of songs September by Earth Wind & Fire, Boogie Wonderland, Earth Wind and Fire Neutron Dance, The Pointer Sisters, What Have I Done to Deserve This, the Pet Shop Boys. And then of course I'm sure everybody can relate to the theme from Friends, which she wrote kicking and screaming going this is my whitest song I've ever written. And of course, it was a huge hit. She also did the Karate Kid theme song. Many songs that you have heard of Allee wrote.
Jennifer Levin
I grew up listening to so much of that music and love it still today. Tell us a little bit about the circumstances that led to Allee's death.
Prudence Fenton
I mean, the circumstances were a surprise all the way around. It was December 23rd, the day before Christmas Eve. We were taking a walk in her neighborhood and she all of a sudden stopped dead and she goes I feel like an electrical shock just went through me and she just didn't feel like she could keep moving. So she sat down on a step I ran and got the car. Put her in the car. I said, Am I driving to the hospital? Or what are we doing? She goes, No, I need to go home and get some things. She always had the presence of mind to get something or, or to, you know, travel with her license and her phone and all that stuff. We went back to the house, I kept saying, Am I calling 911? She said, Yes. 911 came in two minutes. We went to the Sherman Oaks hospital. We were in the ER for seven hours. And they finally moved her up to the telemetry ward, where they want to watch your heart. There was nothing that indicated after all these tests, there's nothing that indicated a heart attack. But you know, she just she was cold and gray. And it was it was just not good. The next day, we went through a battery of tests and they still could find nothing wrong with her. And they scanned her and did bloodwork and everything and and at one point, the guy goes, well, I guess you can go home. And I put on her shoes, and all of a sudden her eyes rolled in the back of her head, I pushed the emergency button, nobody comes, it's Christmas Eve, they're all at the front desk having eggnog. And I run up there and I go, something's wrong, something's wrong, you've got to come. And the next thing I know, its code blue, and they're calling everybody to Allee's ROM and they throw me out and and I hear her saying, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. And you know, in the meantime, you hear them, you know, I guess they're putting on the paddles or whatever, or whatever it is. Anyway, cut to three code blues later and I see her in ICU and she's got a ventilator, and she's breathing, but she's not conscious. And doctor comes in. And I said, I'm not I can't be the one pulling the ventilator. And he goes, oh, don't worry, she'll be dead in 45 minutes. You kind of go, Oh, thanks for telling me. Um, you're just, you're just like, speechless at that point. And, and you're, you see your whole life, just stop. And she did die in 45 minutes. And I had, I had three friends there. Two of them were in hysterics and not helpful at all. And one friend said, I have six plots at Mount Sinai and I can get her picked up and sent over there. And we'll we'll figure out where she's buried tomorrow. Because Allee is Jewish and I felt like I need to bury her in in that form. So nobody is buried on Christmas Day. And anyway, so we buried her on Thursday, the 26th.
Jennifer Levin
I mean, just to think of that, here, you were putting on her shoes, ready to take her home. And then out of nowhere.
Prudence Fenton
And she told everybody, I'll just, you know, we'll talk when I get home. People who called in and to see how she was and it was just it was not meant to be
Jennifer Levin
No, how would you describe those early phases of your grief?
Prudence Fenton
i
Well, as I learned from my grief counselor, it wasn't really grief, I was feeling, it was trauma. I was getting over the trauma of what had happened the surprise of hey, no more partner, no more person, no more, you know, no more days together, no more drives, no more meals, it was just a bomb had gone off in my life. And I didn't know what to make of it. I didn't, I couldn't even see tomorrow, let alone two hours from where I was. It was sort of a five minutes at a time existence because you just, you didn't know what thoughts were coming in, memories and, and also handling things and like learning about death certificates and how important that is to do business in the world after she goes and you know, and then because Allee was who she was, I knew I had to go to this site called Legacy and you know, write some sort of obituary, which I got Allee's manager to help with and she was, you know, she was in New York time at the time. And she stayed up that night writing the perfect obituary for Legacy that all the newspapers and from all over the world could pick up. And that was, that was a little bit heartening because there was news. You know, not not just on the local news and on national news, but from Berlin and Japan and the UK, there was all this pouring of pouring out of I'm sorry she died. And she was like a great songwriter. And everybody was remembering her. And that was, that was gratifying because she she was getting the world renowned think fame that she had so much wanted. But she had to die to get it.
Jennifer Levin
I remember seeing that, I do. What were some of the things that you did to cope during that time, you know, to deal with those feelings.
Prudence Fenton
I just, I had a friend who lost her husband years ago in San Francisco, and she walked all over the city. And I found that walking was the most helpful. The most helpful salve, as it were, just a walk with people or walk by myself, but I walked, you know, four or five miles every day. I didn't, I didn't know what else to do. And I was, I felt like I was in a new world and I was completely clueless.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. What did the walking do for you?
Prudence Fenton
Um, I think it just it regulated me and, you know, being in nature and looking at trees in the sky. And I mean, I'd always walked but this was walking with a different, a different purpose.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. What was it like to grieve something? Grief is often so private. Of course, we share it with family and friends, but it's very internal. It's very private. And yet, her death was also being you know, publicly grieved worldwide, like you said, Japan, the UK, what was that like for you to have this internal experience, but yet it was being you know, she was being mourned on an external level as well.
Prudence Fenton
I love that she was being mourned on an external level, because I knew she would, she would like that. For me, on the internal level, I was just bereft I was, I talkabout magical thinking it was like, you know, after a couple of weeks, it's like, Okay, we're done with this. Now you can come back, there's just there's a there's a believability, or it just was incredible. It just wasn't sinking in that she was gone. She was such a huge life force that you know, losing that, again, it's just, it's like you've lost your left leg. Your left arm, you're like a half of you is gone. And you know, everybody said, I think my mother, when she lost her father, she goes, you never get over it, you just get used to it. So you know, the first month or two. It's not even getting used to it, you're, you're realizing it actually happened. And I would say the first month of your after the death, you're just in shock. You don't know what hit you. And then the next two months are just worse, because you're learning what happened. I would even say it took a whole year for me to learn and understand what had happened.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, yeah. You shared with me that part of your responsibility to Allee, and I don't know if that's the right word was to create a documentary of her life and the work that she created. Can you talk more about that, what she wanted, what that process was like for you?
Prudence Fenton
Well, I mean, she was very clear in her will that she wanted a foundation. And she was you know, she was leaving behind a legacy, a songwriting legacy, a creative legacy, you know, things that she, she inspired so many people. And I knew that a documentary was a calling card, if you were or it was, it was a great advertisement for this. And she had also, she was in the middle of making a documentary. So I was sort of picking up the pieces from that, although throughout her the documentary she would have made, and I made a documentary that was different. In a way she left the path for us, the instructions for us to make this documentary for her. So, you know, as the director said, we just picked up the pieces and put them together. And again, you have to remember it was COVID. And I thought, I said to the guy who owned her music catalog, I said, so you know, everybody's sitting at home with nothing to do, they can't go out we can be editing a documentary right now. Because Allee left about 25,000 hours of footage that she took of herself for us to edit. So it came about because the documentary, it really is a great way, you know, who was Allee Willis? Well, here, you got 90 minutes?
Jennifer Levin
But what was it like to go through all of that for you? How did that?
Prudence Fenton
Some days it was it was very comforting to pull up all the memories. Other days, it just hurt. It just was like one, how am I sitting here pulling together all your, and I wasn't, you know, I was mainly pulling it together to hand it off to a director. You know, how did the world get to be like this, I mean, did I really sign up for this? And some, some lady that I spoke to said, oh, Prudence, you agreed to do this before you came on to Earth. Like in the big Akashic Records, or whatever that is. You made a deal with her and she was gonna go first and you were going to pick up the pieces and preserve her memory. And it was like, okay, well, that's what I'm doing. That then actually made me feel a little better, you know, as if it were predestined. I know that, you know, your belief system can go either way on that one. But it kind of made me feel better, like, all was right with the world. And I'm just doing what, you know what I promised to do on another plane.
Jennifer Levin
Now, you recently have finished the documentary and you just showed it, or it just premiered at a film festival? Do you want to talk a little about that?
Prudence Fenton
Yeah, the documentary got into South by Southwest and we premiered it and we got a standing ovation. And the response was absolutely amazing. And so many people, you know, they were either inspired by it, but just about everybody said, you have to get this into the world because she, you won't get it there, you're uplifted she she is a beloved person. She loved life. She loved people, she loved inspiring other artists, she was inspired by other artists. She she was, she was a force a creative force, she never stopped creating. And her whole message was, you know, if you have a weakness, turn it into a hook. And your life is nothing but an empty canvas. And you you are you are the author here you are the person who can create it. So if you don't like what's going on, you can fix it. And I think those are such great messages to get out there. I think the other one I feel is, we're all creative. And and however you however that looks to you, or however that happens. Do what's inside of you to do because that that will make a perfect universe. I think people get in trouble when they think oh, I have to be a lawyer. I have to be a an accountant or whatever they have to do. I mean, yeah, you need to make a living, I understand. But don't deny yourself. These other things that are coming up for you.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. Speaking of creativity, you used a lot of creativity in your grieving process. Can you talk about some of the creative projects you engaged in for your own healing?
Prudence Fenton
Um, I wrote a letter to Allee everyday for a couple of years. That was, not that that was creative, but it helped, it soothed something in me that I could still talk to her. And then the other thing I did was, I drew a grief bird every day. I drew them in color pencils or pastels or watercolors or whatever, I just, I just did a grief bird and then I made a grief bird book. And I think you look in the eyes of the grief bird himself and it sort of tells you how I felt that day.
Jennifer Levin
Where did the concept, or why did you choose a bird?
Prudence Fenton
I use
Well it started from, I had this friend who had a hummingbird that she always fed and took photographs of and and he kept all the other birds away and his name was Bob and she kept sending me photos of Bob and then I drew Bob and then I realized you know I had a bird 20 years ago that I used to draw all the time so I brought him and other iterations of of other birds just in this is this is not a, think cartoon bird, think a bird with a long beak and, and black and well all kinds of different color feathers. But this is this is not a realistic looking bird.
Jennifer Levin
I don't think there's anything in terms of realism when it comes to grief. I mean, that's not the right word. I mean, grief is, I mean a grief bird. It's, that's a beautiful metaphor. And so when you looked at your birds over time, what did you notice?
Prudence Fenton
Well, I noticed sometimes the colors were really, really vibrant. And then some days the colors were muted and mixed. And it was more I guess, the look in the bird's eye that was sort of pulling me into where, where I really was in this. I also have to say, sometimes I lay on my back like a stunned bug, hoping that a bird would eat me. Yeah, and I, I think I answered the question.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. Yeah, just different forms of creativity that you used to express your grief. There are so many different ways to express it. I think you just recently entered your fourth year.
Prudence Fenton
Yes, it was four years last, in 2023.
Jennifer Levin
Christmas time. Looking back, what are some of the different milestones or even turning points you see in your grief journey thus far?
Prudence Fenton
Um, I think one of the big first big milestones was in April of 2020, I started the process of making a 501(c)(3), to do Willis Wonderland. And that, of course, took nine months and then, and then I had to look for and then I knew I wanted to give a sort of memorial party. And, because again, she died during COVID, there was no memorial, and in 2021 we were still in COVID. And anytime you tried to do something, it was sort of cancelled. Again, Allee was very creative. She had crazy cars, and she had clothes and I got somebody to catalogue all her clothes. And you kind of go, are you serious? Why would you do that?, of course, it took nine months, because she had over 1200 pieces of clothing, that's just shirts, jackets, and pants and I think the hats and shoes and everything else. But um, it was it was, you know, the effort of getting of organizing her stuff, I think was very therapeutic, and especially the clothes, and I decided to have a fashion show. And I got all her friends to come to her backyard, put on her clothes and march around and in a fashion show and I shot them with, you know, a real, real team for three days and put together you know, the behind the scenes and the scene of you know, showing Allee's fashion with the thought that we would sell the clothes and raise money for the Willis Wonderland Foundation, that whole concerted effort of doing that acknowledge helped acknowledge that she was gone, you know, she wasn't going to be the one wearing the clothes, she wasn't going to be the one having a heart attack when somebody else put on her shirts and pants and and so that was that was a, that was a big milestone to do all that because all of a sudden, I was really engaging with her on another level. And then and then planning the memorial party at first I thought it was going to be January of 2022, but thank God, thank God for COVID because the date kept getting pushed back and I finally ended up doing it in September on September 21 of 2022 and it was a huge party and a huge undertaking and I got a great team together to help me and that was a big deal. And it was also great of which one of her friends really showed up and were supportive and I lost a few along the way. I should have, roadkill, but I think that's just the way it goes.
Jennifer Levin
Okay. Any other milestones for you personally?
Prudence Fenton
Well, I mean, like I think executing that stuff was was helping me again, acknowledge that she's, she's not with us, but she leaves behind enough for us never to forget.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. Yeah. And especially having that documentary. How would you describe yourself and your grief now in 2024?
Prudence Fenton
I really think it changed me in terms of, I mean, I look back, I don't know why I put such a harsh judgment, but I look back on myself as someone who was clueless, you know, because Allee was the frontman, Allee was kind of there to, you know, protect me or help me or, you know, even guide me and, um, you know, all of a sudden, I don't have. It's almost as if I had to grow up really quickly. And, you know, I evaluate and move on much quicker. It's like, you don't want to deal with this, you don't want to engage, I don't want, I don't need to talk to you into it, I'll just move on. And I think the new Prudence just moves on. It doesn't, it doesn't matter, it doesn't hurt, nothing could hurt as worse as her loss. And if any of you kind of have that as a baseline, life becomes very clear, very much clearer in how you operate and how you are in the world.
Jennifer Levin
And what about your grief? How would you describe it now?
Prudence Fenton
It's still
It still hits you, it still, you know, you'll find yourself like, Oh, I just, I can't move. I can't deal with it. And then you realize, oh, I'm having a grief moment. And the grief moments, maybe it's good or bad, but they're getting harder to recognize. But I kind of go like, Oh, yeah, it's it's here again, it hasn't left. And I need to just be with it.
Jennifer Levin
Are you surprised at how you feel in life right now?
Prudence Fenton
Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's, it's necessary, and maybe many other people arrive here earlier and without a death to prompt them. I don't, I don't really know. I'm glad I am where I am right now because, well, that's where I am. But, and I don't really know how it is for other people.
But let
Jennifer Levin
Let me rephrase that. Are you able to experience joy and periods of happiness again, and you know, love and you know, positive emotions that I'm assuming there was a time when you thought you would never be able to experience those emotions?
Prudence Fenton
Oh, yes, I have a whole new set of friends. I absolutely adore them. I've had, you know, in the last year, I've had lots and lots of laughter. I met somebody I adore. Totally different, but, of course, there are similarities. And yeah, life is good. But you all of a sudden realize like, I'm 70, what do I have got? Another 10 or 15 years, if I'm lucky. And you, I just, it's just one day at a time and some days, it's an hour at a time. It just depends. But life is, it's a school, it's a lesson, you're learning all the time. And I think there's no greater lesson probably then, you know, losing a spouse. I'm sure that losing a child is another big one.
Yeah. But um,
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, I like that philosophy. Life is a lesson and even at 70, 75, 80 I don't know that we're ever done.
Prudence Fenton
No, we're not. I think as long as you're here, you're learning. It doesn't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter, your health. You know, maybe you're learning about your health or you're learning about your stamina. You're learning, you're always learning.
Jennifer Levin
Always learning. Yeah. I think the question I was trying to ask is, are you surprised where you are in life now that you're you know, you said it's good now? I mean, the grief is still there. But yeah.
Prudence Fenton
I am surprised. And I remember you telling us. We all ask Jennifer in grief group, so when will it be over? Or, when will we be done? And the consensus was four years and I have to say, four years or four years plus was, you all of a sudden you're back in your own skin again, you're back in your own shoes. You're, it is a something. And I feel like we learned how to work the grief, or accept the grief, or I think it's work the grief, work with the grief. And then you're, you're good, you should be good, because I've let it in.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, I want to amend that a little bit. I was quoting an article. Four years. That wasn't me. That wasn't me. It was an article that we were looking at that said four years. So, but I think you were saying it never, like everybody will say it never totally goes away. How could it?
Prudence Fenton
Yeah, no, you just get used to it.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. But it's beautiful to hear you say that you are doing really well still. Yeah, I have one final question for you. And that is, what advice would you give to somebody who had just experienced the sudden and unexpected death of a partner and was just beginning this journey?
Prudence Fenton
I mean, I think what I would definitely recommend is counseling in a grief group with people that had lost the like, I think grieving the people who had lost their spouses, as opposed to grieving with people who had lost, you know, spouses, mothers, fathers, children, I think having sort of the similar lost really help that really helped us recover with each other. Counseling is really good. You think, when they go I mean, when somebody suggested me counseling, it's like, oh, the last thing I want to do is talk about this. And, and yet, I think I wouldn't be where I am today without the help. Because it's a whole field of study. And people really, you know, know a lot of stuff about this, they have a lot of knowledge about how you emotionally cope with it. And I think you'd be an idiot not to, not to take advantage of it. Even if you're not, you know, a person who believes in therapy or anything, it's just, this is bigger, the death is bigger than you are. And I think it really helps to get help. I mean, you've lost your greatest connection. And this helps you find your way back to how to connect the people. And even if they're strangers, they become friends and, and you'll lose friends, because your friends will know how to connect to you because you've gone through this loss, and they have no idea about it. And so I think I, I would really recommend counseling in any form that you can.
Jennifer Levin
Getting some outside support. Yeah. So anything else you'd like to say?
Prudence Fenton
No, thank thank you for this. I hope this is helpful. It's been quite a journey, and still continues.
Jennifer Levin
Well, thank you for sharing your story and Allee's story with us. And when we can find out where to watch the documentary, we will definitely put it in the Facebook group.
Prudence Fenton
Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
Jennifer Levin
Yes, so please be sure and tell us.
Prudence Fenton
Okay.
Jennifer Levin
All right. Thank you so much, prudence, for giving us your time today.
Prudence Fenton
Thank you.
Jennifer Levin
Prudence has given me permission to share that we worked together during her grief journey. Throughout this time, I watched her explore the best way to honor and then fillfull Allee’s legacy without letting her responsibilities to Allee consume her identity and grief. She trusted her internal compass that guided her to rely on her creativity, take a grief time out when necessary, connect to signs from Allee and receive support from friends or trusted members of her team to get her through the difficult times. Despite the constant companion of her grief, she remained open to new experiences and believed that she still remained on this earth for a reason often using the phrase “she still had skin in the game.” Listening to Prudence describe where she is today, I do not believe she ever thought she would have a new group of friends that she adored or happiness in her life again. As she said, “the new Prudence just moves on.” But I know she carries Allee with her. She continues in learning and sees life as a constant lesson – This makes Prudence one of the most educated and smartest people I have had the pleasure to know.
If you are interested in learning more about the documentary, The World According to Allee Willis or her Foundation Willis Wonderland please join our Facebook group, Talking about the podcast Unteathered with Dr. Levin.
To learn more about hope and guidance after sudden or unexpected death please visit therapyheals.com and sign up for my monthly newsletter Guidance in Grief at www.therapyheals.com. Bye for now.
