Jennifer Levin
Hi everyone and welcome to Untethered: Healing the pain from a sudden death. I am Dr. Jennifer Levin, and I specialize in traumatic death and helping individuals through the struggles, pain, trauma, and chaos of an unexpected death. In the previous podcast of Untethered, I interviewed Tami Millard, whose husband died suddenly riding his mountain bike the day before their daughter’s 16th birthday. In today’s podcast, I talk with Tami’s daughter, Anya, now 19, about to be 20, almost four years since the day her father died. Anya’s interview not only provides another perspective about what happened after her father died but it is also insight into the adolescent grief experience after the sudden death of a parent. During our time together we explore her perception of how grief impacted her mom and how their relationship has evolved through grief and time. Anya shares her thoughts about what she describes as “not being able to have an adult relationship with her dad” and the importance of grace and time in the healing process from traumatic grief. Anya, hi and welcome. I am really glad that you're here with us today. So, let's just jump in, and why don't you start and tell us a little bit about yourself, your hobbies, your interests, any of that stuff. I'll let you take it away.
Anya Millard
My name is Anya, I use she/her pronouns. I'm currently in college in Walla Walla, Washington, studying religious studies and art history. I'd like to go into archival work, or library studies or museum collections. I haven't quite narrowed down a path yet, but that's sort of the dream. I have an interest in Los Angeles history. It's sort of been a personal passion. I've been getting into urban planning, which I didn't think would ever happen. And it's kind of the most boring part about me, but that as well. Yeah, I've lived here in California for most of my life, but I've become a Washingtonian as of late.
Jennifer Levin
Yay. What are some of the things you like to do when you are not in school?
Anya Millard
I like to read. I like to watch very long YouTube video essays about politics and film and culture. I like to watch movies and TV. I've been a big, I wish I was more of a film bro. But I'm not. But yeah.
Jennifer Levin
All right. Well, I appreciate you taking time to talk with us today. And just really glad to have you here. So earlier this month, the podcast interview with your mom aired, and she described her grief journey, as a wife, and as a single parent, after the unexpected death of her husband, Kyron. Who was your father. And you know, it's always really interesting when somebody's willing to provide a different perspective in the same family, and especially to get someone your age. I love to get young voices to come and talk as well. So let me start by asking you, what do you remember about the day that your dad died?
Anya Millard
I was in my sophomore year of high school. And it was the day before my birthday. So I just had the night before a party with one of my friends. We had this big sleepover. And my dad had made breakfast burritos for everybody in the morning. He was the big cook. He loved to do that. And he and my mom went out to do some sort of like regular errands. And I stayed behind because I had a couple essays to write.
Jennifer Levin
You were turning 16, right.
Anya Millard
Yes, yeah. It was the day before my 16th birthday. And he went out for, we came back in or my parents came back and he went out for a bike ride. And he came to my door. And he knocked on my door. But he didn't open it. And he just said, you know, I'm going on a short ride. And I'll be back, probably around six. And he left. And that was the last time I ever heard him. He, it just kept getting later and later in the night. And my mom and I were worried. Sometimes he would, you know, stay out a little bit later. And he would always pick up calls from me. Sometimes he wouldn't pick up a call from my mom, but he would pick up a call from me. So we were both calling him and my mom finally got somebody to pick up and we're like, okay, he's fine. And it was a police sergeant, who had found the phone on his body. His unidentified body which had come in, I think about two hours earlier. I think this was around 6pm when he passed out on the trail on a bike ride on that bike ride. And at first I thought like maybe he's just like broken a leg. And that's that's why we're getting this call. But then I believe she just said "he died?" like that. Like she just had responded to what the police sergeant said. I don't even remember like my first reaction. All I just remember is like I had this moment where I thought like, if I don't have a response, then it's not going to be real. Like I felt like I was in a play. And I just like started screaming. My mom describes it as like a wail, which sounds very dramatic, but I guess it was dramatic situation. This was the time to be dramatic. I kind of just like fell to the floor. And my mom and I started like trying to figure out what to do and we I think she called her mom. She called my grandma and we went to the hospital. Yeah, I mean, lots of like little moments, moments from that night. Like, I remember calling my, my youth leader at church and walking the hospital hallways with her and eating apple slices that somebody brought and I, you know, trying to decide if I wanted to see his body and like weird little moments like that. But that's sort of the night.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. It's amazing what you hold on to from that. Yeah. What do you remember about those initial grief experiences just right in the immediate aftermath.
Anya Millard
I mean, it didn't really feel real to me. I mean, his health had been sort of like, had been weird for a long time, his heart health had been kind of up and down. But I don't think my parents had shared a lot of it with me. Um, I knew that he would take his blood pressure every night. I didn't even know he was on like, heart medication. So there was like little things, but I knew that it was starting to get kind of shaky. I don't think I knew that it was it was where it was, where it was at where he could have possibly died. But I knew it was getting shaky. But like, nowhere near enough that I would have I would have ever thought, or been prepared for him to just, you know, pass out on a bike trail. Yeah, I like that comment about like, it feeling like I was in a play. It just it felt like I had a role I had to play essentially. Or like, things that I felt like I had to do to make it feel real, because it didn't feel real. Just like bursting out crying at random moments and then being fine again. And, you know, I wasn't like, inconsolable, I was still thinking and talking and having conversations. But, you know, feeling that just like a deep pit of dread in my stomach the whole time. Yeah.
Jennifer Levin
You said there are things you felt like you had to do to make it real? What do you mean by that?
Anya Millard
I feel like there were just there were things that like I knew from from film, or, you know, from from films or TV that like people did when they first heard that somebody was, was dying, or was dead that like, I felt like I had to perform to like, make the experience true. Which for something that felt like I was I was acting and I don't know why I felt like I had to, like, fulfill a part that feels like that would I don't know, make that feeling of it being a play more real, but it was sort of the opposite, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, things like, like yelling, or I don't know, like leaning on mom. Like, there's, there's a lot of it that I don't remember. But just that that feeling of like unreality the whole night was really, really strong. And I think was really strong for I mean, a while but especially that first week.
Jennifer Levin
What was it like to watch your mom grieve during that time as well? I mean, Dad's gone, and I'm sure mom was pretty compromised as well.
Anya Millard
I think that first night was sort of, initially at first we're sort of just like getting through what we needed to get done. So going to the hospital, seeing his body calling his dad. You know, I'm actually I believe she called my grandpa first before she called her mom. You know, little things like that. Sending paperwork because he came in unidentified to the hospital. He came in John Doe, because he wasn't carrying any identification, which was a whole other matter. That took like a month to have to deal with. But so, but after that first night, she just like didn't sleep. I remember her like being up late at night, like going over passwords, because she was really worried about like the passwords that he had written down and making sure that all the immediate financial stuff was lined up. But I think it got really hard like that week after sort of the day after. She basically just spent a week in this like one fuzzy sweatshirt thing in sweatpants, and just laying on the couch, and she would only eat one kind of yogurt. And she would only drink tea. And she would just like drift from the couch to her room for like a week. And that was awful to see. But I felt like I couldn't tell her to like snap out of it or anything because like, why would I do that? That's awful. Yeah, I she didn't I mean, she didn't sort of snap out of it so to speak until I, I sort of made a comment about her her teeth. Because she's someone are about her breath. Because she's someone who's like, religiously brushed her teeth every day of her life, two times a day never slipped up once in her life. She's got a strong nose. So she cares a lot about like, how your breath smells. But like I just made a comment to her about like, Oh, Your breath smells bad. And it was like it snapped out it snapped her out of it in some way. And she was like, Oh, I have to like get my myself together and like, be more present here. But that first week, I mean, I kind of made her get rid of that sweatshirt that she wore, because she kept it for like another year. And I finally told her I was like, I hate that thing. Can you like can you get rid of it? Like it's just bad. Bad bad memories? Like all I can see is you like laying on the couch. Just eating like I think it was like passion fruit yogurt, or something.
Jennifer Levin
It must have been actually really scary. To see her like this.
Anya Millard
Yeah, I mean, I think I'd seen my mom cry twice in my life before that. So that was, that was rough. I mean, my dad was probably more more stoic than she was. My mom has always been a very like emotional, like very feeling deep feeling person, but seeing her sort of stuck like that, and not following the sort of like, rituals and routines that have made up her life. She's someone who's always kind of relied on routine, you know, has done the same makeup for years has, you know, very, very committed to like, she's, she's a shower every day, brush your teeth every day. I know. That's what we all aspire to. But let's be, you know, the truth of of living. But yeah, just to see or to slip out of those those routines was just, yeah that was hard.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. His death really shattered her world. And I mean, she, I mean, she talks about it in our interview just of how...I mean, once she did get back on her feet, how she just delved so deeply into learning about her grief and processing it. And I want to talk with you about that a little bit. But once things started to kind of, I don't know, create a new normal. What was it like in the house with dad's absence? How did it feel for you?
Anya Millard
I mean, it's tricky, because he passed away early February. So February 2nd. And I think both of us, so my mom works at a school. And I was obviously in high school at the time. And this was 2020. So like, or like mid March 2020, both of us went home. And then we just didn't go back to school for about, like, what, two years. So we sort of just like lived in this tiny I think our house was 1400 square feet. So we just like lived in this small, the same pretty small space together for like two years, as we dealt with just whatever came up. And that was awful. Probably not as bad as it could have been, but not great. But I will always give props to my mom for how much I feel like she stepped up and started. She was not the cook in our family. My dad loved cooking like he loved cooking. I think it was his primary way like way of showing, showing his love for the two of us to somebody who was not a very verbose man. Especially when it came to affection and pride. Even if you could feel it, so cooking was sort of his way of showing it. But my mom really like stepped up and in taking care of that. I think that's the primary thing I think of but and just being my parent in a way that I've heard from other people my age in my life who have lost a parent did not experience the same thing from from their parents from the remaining parent. So I give her props to that. The two of us, like, both share this experience where we sort of feel like he kind of just vanished. Like neither of us have ever really felt like, we felt, you know, maybe every once in a while, we're like, oh, you know, I could I can sort of hear him saying this to be but I don't think either of us have ever talked about feeling like, like, we feel his spirit or that he lingered in the house. You know, I think we both sort of felt like he just vanished out of existence. And I think sometimes it even felt like he wasn't, he hadn't ever even been there, just with the way like, I mean, I'm glad my mom stepped up, but I think because for almost everything, there just wasn't a hole that in so many, like, there wasn't, you know, maybe there was one like, you know, emotionally or spiritually, in some sense, but like, practically, there wasn't a hole where he was missing. And so I think it's sometimes it felt like he hadn't ever, like, left a mark, a practical mark, on our lives, or on on at least on I don't know, my everyday life, even though he obviously had like, I don't even know if I have great words for it, it was just a really strange experience of feeling like he was so necessary to, to my life and to my everyday experience, and to getting food at the end of the day, to like, just almost never having ever existed. It was just a strange transition that I don't know if I fully have words for.
Jennifer Levin
It's a difficult phenomenon to describe.
Anya Millard
Yeah. And I like I guess, I worry, it makes it sound like, I don't value him or like, I don't feel his missing presence. Like, it's not that it's just, I don't know, practically, practically, versus sort of, like, emotionally.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, and I know from some of the other things that we talked about those definitely have been a reflection in ways that you feel him. But I'm hearing the day to day things. I mean, life had to go on, and things about how the family unit restructures itself and changes roles. And it sounds like you and mom, and especially with COVID found a way to restructure those roles so that everybody's needs were met. Yeah. Did you have other people checking in on you seeing how you were doing?
Anya Millard
Yeah, I mean, my mom and I were really lucky, really lucky to have a pretty big support system, especially on her side. I mean, I had a great number of wonderful friends, but they were also all 16-17 year olds, which I think you can only extend a certain amount of sympathy and understanding from that position of your life at that age. Some people were better at it than others. I think as much as I appreciated that support system, I also was really frustrated by it. Because my, my mom was an educational therapist, and all of the people in her life were counselors and therapists themselves. Or just extremely well meaning people who all really wanted, adults who really wanted to know how I was how I was actually doing, was I actually okay, which is really frustrating. Because it's like, I don't want to be vulnerable to this one adult right now. Like, you don't need to know how I'm feeling after my dad has just passed away. I understand the intent. But I kind of want you to leave me alone. Can you accept that I'm fine and let's move on. You know, you're not my therapist, I pay somebody to take this. I don't know. I feel like from what I've heard, through my own experience with people my age and through what my mom has learned that like a lot of teenagers and adolescents don't have traditional sort of grief experiences. We're not like, I mean, obviously not across the board. But we're not like weepy, we're not like broken people in many ways. And I think the way that people expect us to grieve and I think the way that I've, at least I can speak from my experience, I think I felt like I could be that person but like only in a really like safe, safe space that I felt like maybe not just safe but designated space where I felt like I had the room to be vulnerable and then recover from being vulnerable. So I didn't get that hangover feeling that I think I just had so many well meaning and I appreciate the intent adults in my life who who wanted me to who want it to be that designated space for me, but they wanted to do it in like, the, the courtyard after church, or like, on vacation, and I didn't want like, that's not the space for that. And that was really frustrating. So I don't know, it's two sides of the of the coin right because or if that's even the right metaphor, because I know there's plenty people who I think wish that somebody was there to ask them like, are you really okay? And they feel like? Yeah, exactly like they feel like people aren't aren't seeing them on that level. But then on the other side, it's like, there's a point when you feel like please stop asking me.
Jennifer Levin
Just ask me if I'm okay. And not mean it. Yeah. Well, to your first point, definitely young people and teens grieve very differently than adults. And you're right. In and out, in there's moments of sadness, and then there's moments of, hey, I'm fine. I just want to be with my friends. I just want to have moments of lightheartedness. And let me have it. And where adults, and especially, you know, someone who's just lost a life partner, the heaviness is pretty constant right afterwards. And, you know, as a therapist, I've had parents call me up and say, something's wrong with my, my young person, my teen, they're not grieving enough. They're not crying. Something's not right. And, you know, actually, they're probably okay, they're just doing it differently. A lot of psychoeducation going on with parents at that stage. And so, you know, knowing the community you've been raised in, I think you're probably pretty well versed in healthy emotions and knowing, you know, when you need to be able to express yourself and when not, but you're right, you need to be able to be in the right space, be vulnerable, and then put yourself back together. And the church parking lot, vacation are definitely not when you want to do it. But you have a point that there are some people who do really, really want to be asked, How are you really doing? Because people ask and they don't want to know. Yeah. But different experiences. How has the death of your dad changed your relationship with your mom?
Anya Millard
Um, I think I've been really lucky in that the two of us got a lot closer. We were always, we've always been more similar. I think we'd always gotten along really well. Especially as I've gotten older, I think, I don't know, in just a lot of ways we were really similar people. And I think I mean, one we were physically closer, just being in the same house. For like, I don't know, a whole day. No time apart during the lockdown, but also. Yeah. But also, emotionally, I think we just, we got a lot closer, I think we shared a lot more with each other. I think I used to be a lot more of a private person with her I would still call myself a private person. But I think I'm a lot more of a private person I was a lot more of a private person with her. I think it was a lot about like, my you know, interior life and like friends struggles and stuff that I was going through at the time that like she didn't know about that I started to more open up with that. And I think to this day, she's really the person I go to when I need to talk about something that's happening in my life. So I that I value a lot like I really appreciate. I think she's, I'm not somebody who I think would ever call my mom, my best friend. I think my whole life I've asserted like, she's my mom, she's not my best friend. But I would say she's probably the person I'm like, closest to in the world in just out of anybody. And that I think she she matters, I mean, obviously a lot but she's like a priority in my life. I will say those first like maybe two lockdown years were rough. We were closer. But we were also more on each other's nerves than ever. And I started to kind of slip into a depression. That was awful, and I don't really ever want to go back into. And my mom, this is something that she's improved a lot, but she has always just been a very anxious person. Um, and that was like, on overdrive. When it came to everything to my well being to her own well being to financial stuff, to, you know, physical fitness, you know, all of that I think was so heightened for her that we just, we had a lot of moments where I felt like I think her anxiety was feeding into me, you know, and I, my schoolwork was dipping, and I finally got diagnosed with ADHD I want to say about two years ago, but like, that was really just the the setup of being on online school was just not not ideal for me in any way. So I think, you know, my schoolwork was slipping. And that was making her more anxious, because, you know, she wanted me to pass my junior year, and she wanted me to make it to my senior year and graduate and have a normal school year. And, you know, thinking about the financials if having to pay makeup classes, and it just we clashed about a lot. And it wasn't, it wasn't really like angry conversations. It was like a lot of like, big crying, weeping moments and passive aggression and just bleeding anxiety from the both of us and yeah, our, our relationship definitely, like, split, before it started to like, really get better.
Jennifer Levin
That sounds intense. So you're now in your second year in college, and you moved out of the state. I bet a lot has changed.
Anya Millard
Yes and no. I think I'm really lucky and that I got to have my senior year completely in person. Kind of back to normal in a lot of ways. And I think our relationship really like solidified that year, and that I think I was starting to be a lot more independent and do a lot more things myself. And I think obviously, not completely being that I was what like 18, but becoming, you know, and I'm barely 20 now, but that I was becoming more of an adult. And I think our relationship was sort of starting to, like reach that level of like, we were both more adults living our own lives. And then I went to college and I don't know if it changed that much from there. I mean, I sort of found my footing in a way that I didn't think that I would, which was which was great. I think I started to like I was better at keeping on top of things and living my own my own life better than I thought I would. And I still called her all the time like, yeah, I don't know if we had any, like significant changes in a lot of ways. I think we still sort of talked to each other the same way and when I'm home I think it feels similar to my senior year in that we kind of have the same relationship I mean, obviously there's a lot more than I do on my own now but I don't know it's not so different.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah, I met so things changing with mom but even just things changing with your thought process how you think about Dad and reflecting back on everything. So if you do think about, you know, four years is a big time in maturity level you know, given age and where you were. So thinking back, what were, after four years now, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced in your grief after dad died?
Anya Millard
I think I struggled to be, I think I struggled to understand like where my boundaries were with vulnerability. I would say that's one of the biggest ones with how much I was willing to share especially in feeling like I tended to overshare and then feel that like vulnerability hangover feeling afterwards that I think just that on a like a personal level but also I think something that I sort of realized immediately after, and I've sort of had to come to terms with is like, I felt myself, I was really frustrated that I didn't get a, I didn't get to have an adult relationship with my dad. And my therapist would always ask, like, what do you mean by an adult relationship? So I guess I just mean, like, I didn't feel like I got to relate, I didn't get to relate to him on that level. My middle school years were really rocky with him. Not like awful. Like, I wouldn't say like our relationship was, was in a dire position or anything, but we just were missing each other a lot. I think he had expectations for me that I wasn't always meeting and I was frustrated with, you know, his lack of, I don't know, he, my mom is a very, my mom is the kind of person who will tell you, she loves you a million times a day. And it's very physically affectionate. And I think I wasn't great at always recognizing the ways that he that he felt like he could say, or say or show his love. And yeah, so we were just like, missing each other a lot. And I was highly emotional, just all over the place puberty. That whole age. Yeah. So a rocky relationship that I think was starting to get better. Like, I feel like we were really starting to actually click and see each other more. And then he sort of just died out of nowhere. I think the way that I used to describe it to my mom was like, I felt like the book just sort of ended. Like you, you know, you've finished one chapter. And you're expecting another and there's just blank pages, like, or like someone just cut a string. And it's just sort of flapping in the wind, like, there's just nothing. I don't know, it ended so abruptly, that it felt like there was more, there was more to the relationship that I should have had. That sort of just ended. Yeah. And I think I just felt really frustrated by that, that I never got a chance to sort of, I mean, with the way that my mom and I have really clicked as I've gotten older. As we I mean, partially had to sort of mature together. But also just with me getting getting older and experiencing more of life. I'm sad that I missed that with my dad, because I think we were really, really close when I was really little. Or even just to like pre middle school he was like, my favorite person in the world. And we had a really close relationship. And I think it would have been nice to I mean, more than nice, I, for a long time. It felt really, really unfair to me that I didn't get to have that with him.
Jennifer Levin
It is unfair. I mean, we get to a point in life where we realize that life is unfair. But that was definitely unfair.
Anya Millard
There's a short film that has a wild name. It's called My Dead Dad's Porno Tapes, but...
Jennifer Levin
I'm going to write that one down.
Anya Millard
It's a wonderful short film that I felt like, I felt like was such a touchstone to me, in the like early years of having just lost him. It's by a filmmaker who lost his dad when he was 19 to malignant cancer. And so he had a little bit of warning, but his death, especially I think it happened within sort of months of him finding out that his dad had this cancer. And he sort of talks about like, the two of them just having mismatched interests and his dad having sort of a tricky past with his with his mom and with his family and feeling like not realizing how far his dad had come in being like, a much better parent than his own family had ever been, and trying to break the cycles that he, you know, had experienced as a kid. That just like, so much of it mapped on to my own experience with my dad and my dad's life. But then, you know, he gets to that, to that realization of like, he died when I was 19. And I just felt like, one he never I felt his pride even if I didn't always hear it. And I wish he got to see me like, (a) flourish and (b) I wish I got to have a relationship with him as a as like a fellow adult, and that we could have related on a level that I don't think we ever could have at the age that I was. And I think that film had, it helped me just like, define so many of the things that I was, I was feeling and I would recommend it to everybody who always like asked me what I was feeling about, like every therapist and, and teacher and like parent who was like, you know, like what do you mean by an adult relationship? Or? Or how would you describe your relationship with your dad, I think I would always point to that film and be like, I just see so much of myself in it. And I, I feel that experience.
Jennifer Levin
I'm definitely going to put that on my list to watch. But I'm also really glad that you were able to find something else that you were able to connect with. And that you could see a part of yourself and your relationship with dad. That must have been comforting.
Anya Millard
For sure. Yeah.
Jennifer Levin
So this question may sound really weird, but are there any lessons that you learned in this grief experience that continues on or anything that surprised you?
Anya Millard
Um, I think I learned to give not just myself, but other people a lot of grace. And to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, obviously not, don't, not to let yourself get dragged around by horrible people, but to, to pause and have that moment of like, what else is happening here? I'm sure I had plenty of moments where I was not an ideal human being. And that was coming out of my own sort of frustration and unexpressed, or, I guess in that moment, I was expressing grief. That for sure. I think also is just to understand the like, embodied part of of grief, I mean, one just, you know, alternate experiences of, of grief beyond just weeping, crying, anger, but also things like how we talked about sort of the adolescent experience of grief, but also, one of the things that that I have struggled with since is sort of like somatic pain. And that like in the last, so my dad's, as of the time of recording, my dad's birthday, or anniversary of when his birthday would have been was yesterday. And in the last few days, I've had like, really bad, like, it's almost felt like autoimmune disorder, pain, like weird sensitive skin and sore muscles, and joint pain that comes out of nowhere, and can't really be fixed by anything. You know, my mom had a really scary experience where she had really, really sharp chest pain, that we went to the urgent care because we were scared, like she was having a mild heart attack, but, you know, went away, and had no other symptoms, and all of her tests, you know, she had a bunch of lab tests and EKGs. And they all cleared and it was probably just a grief like moment, that things like that can live in your body.
Jennifer Levin
Yeah. give other people grace. You know, I'm always telling clients give yourself grace. But that's a great reminder. Give other people grace as well. So let me wrap this up today by asking you, and again, it so wonderful for you to come on at this age and not I you know, being young is just it's so helpful because I don't get a lot of young people who are, how do I want to say this, just sorry that this has happened, so sorry, at your young age, but so I'm just grateful again, that you're willing to share this because there are so many other young people in your situation that don't get to hear stories like yours. And so what advice would you give to another teenager who was 16? Or who's 20? Who's just experienced the sudden death of their father? What would you tell them right now?
Anya Millard
I guess I would just say to give it time. I think, like I don't want to say like time heals all wounds or any of that kind of BS but like,
Jennifer Levin
You know that doesn't work.
Anya Millard
No, but things in terms of like, understanding or coming to some level of like peace or I don't even know if peace is the right word, just like, I feel like the place I'm at now, which is definitely a lot better than it was then came with both maturing, so just getting older, but to like, just like giving myself time to be giving myself time and grace to be I don't know, kinder, better, more mature. To understand who my dad was in my life, you know, his role, to understand what my life is now to settle into new roles to figure out how to function again. I think in the moment, it all feels so unreal and devastating that it doesn't feel like it's ever going to be better or ever make sense or there like there will, there won't ever be a new order to your life. And I don't think that's true. I think it's just something that takes, annoyingly, that takes time. Yeah.
Jennifer Levin
Nicely said. Nice. Listen. Well, thank you for your time today. And for
Anya Millard
Thank you for having me.
Jennifer Levin
Yes, I'm very appreciative. So anyway, Anya Millard, thank you again, and I'm looking forward to hearing how you're doing over the next couple of years and maybe we'll bump into each other in Washington one of these days. I have so much gratitude towards Anya and Tami for their willingness to be vulnerable and share their grief experiences with us after Kyron’s death. In most cases, the death of a parent forces adolescents to confront some of the harsh realities and challenges that come with being an adult at an early age. During our interview, Anya acknowledged her awareness of the gaps that now existed after her dad’s death and the way her mom stepped up and stepped in a manner that her other peers who had also lost a parent had not. She shared her mom’s efforts to take on specific roles and responsibilities that belonged to her dad while at the same time managing her grief, financial stressors, working, and parenting all which occurred during COVID. Both Anya and Tami had shared grief experiences they acknowledged during their interviews. For example, they both mentioned feeling like the initial experience was a dream or story that was not real. Anya furthermore elaborated on feelings she had to perform or act a certain way to make the grief experience true. Both of them also recongized how quickly Kyron’s existence vanished after his death and how difficult it was to feel his presence at home. And finally, they both shared how hard it was to watch one another be in a state of pain and grief after Kyron’s death. Anya’s experiences provide valuable insight about how adolescents grieve and how different and often misunderstood their grief can be from the adults around them. In our interview she talked about some of the differences she noticed in how adolescents grieve and the expectations she encountered from well-meaning adults around her regarding how she grieved, expressed her emotions, or desired Anya to share feelings at times when she was trying to achieve a sense of normalcy or distance from her grief. It was refreshing to hear her express thoughts such as “can you accept that I am fine and let’s move on.” On the flip side, Anya realized that although these expectations were annoying or she felt misunderstood, there are some adolescents without anyone invested in their emotional well-being after the death of a parent. Perhaps the biggest difference in grief between Tami and Anya is the relationship they were grieving. Tami was his wife; his life partner and they had planned to grow old together as a couple. Anya was his daughter, and early in her life, like all children, she was completely dependent on her parents to anticipate and meet her needs while growing up. As she grew from a child to a teenager, her relationship with her mom and dad changed as her identity, beliefs, life-experiences, friends, interests, and dreams were maturing as well. For many, there comes a time in the parent-child relationship when a shift occurs, and the relationship dynamics change. When parent and child can expand the boundaries of their relationship and relate to one another as adults, and perhaps. After her dad’s death Anya realized that she was not only grieving the death of her father as a person, but she was also grieving a future loss, the loss of having an adult relationship with her father. I want to thank Anya for recommending the film – my Dead Dad’s Porno Tapes, a short film that she said helped her through her grieving process and validated her feelings especially the part about not being able to have an adult relationship with her dad. This film was such a creative expression of grief, meaning, and connection between one young man and the father he never really got to know, and I can see why it brought comfort to Anya after I watched it. I am incredibly thankful to Anya for spending time with me and her willingness to share her story. If you would like to leave a message for Anya, please post inside our Facebook group – Talking about the podcast with Untethered with Dr. Levin and we will make sure that she gets it. To learn more about hope and guidance after sudden or unexpected death please visit therapyheals.com and sign up for my monthly newsletter Guidance in Grief at www.therapyheals.com. Bye for now.